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102 Ιανουαρίου 4, 2005

Posted by Lida in Greek IT.
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Yesterday I finally got fired, after 3 years of working my ass off. It is the second time this happens. The first time was during the collapse of Altec in 2001 (I was working in the newly founded A.C.N.). 200 people in total lost their jobs in a period of 3-4 months then, only Neftemporiki reported it, nobody else said a thing.Sometimes I wonder what would had happened if something like that occurred in the shipyard zone of Perama. This time the excuse is the “bad communication with my coworkers”. I’m not the easiest person to work with, I admit that much. But I have been like this the last 3 years; I’ve been like this all of my life to be honest. I haven’t changed really, I’m afraid it is the company I worked for that has changed. It became from a rather pleasant place to work in with reasonable employers, to a sweatshop, which crushes people until they can’t take it any more.

It seems that this is the fate of most software companies in Greece, they probably start with good intentions and feel good mentality and end up like Dante’s Inferno. The scenario is all too common and it looks like this. Employers gradually become greedier and close as many deals as they can regardless of how many they can actually handle, regardless of the size and complexity of the project, sometimes even regardless of whether it is actually profitable! Because they want as many projects as possible done as cheaply and as soon as possible they end up with 5-6 projects with each one of them requiring normally at least one year to complete (off course all of them are running simultaneously). Work hours gradually increase, until it is considered normal to work on weekends and on holidays and without overtime pay. In my case the point that broke me was an email requesting us to be present at the company premises at May 1st. Because of the need for more projects (because the existing one are so badly organized they don’t make enough money), developers and other technical people (those who do the actual work) are gradually replaced by sales persons until it is almost one sales person for every developer which in turn increases the workload on the remaining developers. All fresh ideas, which are the ones that actually make money, are replaced by a chase of every crappy state fund program that is out there. Off course the fact that every fucking software company in Greece is doing the exact thing is no deterrent. These projects have complex requirements and need lots of paper work which means more sales and presales people to deal with them and do the paperwork. Technical people start to leave gradually unable to handle the unbearable conditions any more. The process continues until the ratio of sales persons against technical stuff is 3/1 with the remaining developers being the ones that where to mediocre to look for a job some place else.

What is really beyond me is why does it have to almost always be this way. If they can’t relate to their employees can’t they at least see that all this is against their interests? Don’t they understand that overexploiting people to the point of exhaustion is actually loosing them money? That by changing their “priorities” every five minutes to whatever is considered “hot” in the market they are unable to crate a solid base of knowledge and expertise that is essential to the well being of the company? That by carefully organizing their priorities and doing good market studies, analyzing the project requirements and setting well thought out time frames with the help of the developers they would actually increase their profits 10 fold without coming close to sending people to the hospital? That if they had chosen to give people good working conditions, good salaries, real bonuses, respect and recognition they would have created a loyal workforce eager to do there best instead of the bitter and exhausted employees they have now? That by been greedy and irresponsible they damage themselves and everything else around them?

I don’t know what to think any more, I’m really disappointed. I don’t give a fuck about those assholes; they can drop dead for all I care. What bothers me most is that I will really miss working with the people there, especially my manager. I owe a lot to that guy; I bet that there can’t be more than 5-10 like him in this country. He is one of the best developers I’ve ever known and a wonderful person. For a long time now he was the only real reason I kept working in that shithole. The memory of him and 3-4 other people I met there will be all that I choose to keep from these 3 years. The rest can go to hell.

Σχόλια»

1. Sakis - Ιανουαρίου 6, 2005

Μήπως το προηγούμενο post σου (2/1/2005) έπαιξε κάποιο ρόλο στην απόλυσή σου; Έχουν γίνει τέτοια πράγματα στην Αμερική.

Re: «bad communication with my coworkers». Καλώς ή κακώς τα technical skills είναι συνθήκη αναγκαία αλλά μη ικανή για την επαγγελματικ&

2. Lida - Ιανουαρίου 6, 2005

Agapite Saki auta pou leo sto post tis 2/1/2005 den einai tipote se auta pou exo grapsei kata kerous edo kai xronia se mail ston C.E.O. tis eterias. I apolisi mou egine aloste kata tin diarkia tis adias mou kathos kai erimin tou manager mou oste na min iparksoun antidraseis. Oso gia to an pragmatika itan kaki i epikinonia me tous coworkers mou pistepse me makari na boithousan kai na metadidan tin gnosi tous kai oi alloi sinadelfoi tous neoterous opos ego. Opos anafero sto post den eime apo tous pio eukolous antropous alla auto isxiei apo tin arxi tis synergasias me auti tin etairia. Nomizo oti i apolisi mou exei perisotero na kanei me oti exo ekfrasei dimosia tin antithesi mou me tin genikoteri symperifora tis eterias apenanti stous ergazomenous tis. Xaraktitristiko einai oti kanenas den me prosegise prin se mia prospathia eksomalinsis ton ypotithemenon diaforon me tous synadelfous. Aploustata epepsa na eimai arketa ekmetaleusimi gia ta standard tous. Mporo na rotiso esi pou ergazese kai edo kai posa xronia?

3. Sakis - Ιανουαρίου 6, 2005

To comment μου κόπηκε από το Haloscan επειδή ξεπερνούσε τους 1000 χαρακτήρες. Στο έστειλα ως email.

4. Sakis - Ιανουαρίου 6, 2005

By the way, τι σχέση έχει η βοήθεια προς τους νεώτερους συναδέλφους σου με την επικοινωνία; Δεν εννοώ ότι είναι κακό να βοηθάς. Αντιθέτως, είναι πολύ καλό. Αλλά άλλο αυτό και άλλο η επικοινωνία. Πιστεύω να κα&#

5. Lida - Ιανουαρίου 6, 2005

grapse Greeklish kalitera, mallon exei problima to haloscan me ta unicode. Auto pou leo exei na kanei me to oti i sxesi me tous sinadelfous mou itan i epifasi kai oxi o pragmatikos logos. Kapios pou boithaei tous synadelfous tou kai kyrios ton empisteuontai kai oi synadelfoi tou kai oi pelates den mporei na exei toso megalo problima epikoinonias oste na prepei na apolithei. Isos na min einai euxaristos alla sigoura den dimiourgei problima stin doulia. Sou leo oti i epikinonia mporei na itan problimatiki alla einai edo kai 3 xronia. Auto pou allakse einai oti den imoun diatethimeni na anexome autou tou eidous tin ekmetaleusi kai to dilona dimosia. Alloi apla sikonontan kai feugane, ego ilpiza oti tha akousto kai oti kati tha allaze.

6. talos - Ιανουαρίου 7, 2005

Lida,
ola auta mou 0umizoun polla! Ligo-polu einai o kanonas se otidhpte exei na kanei me nees texnologies sth xwra mas, anamesa sta alla giati autoi poy tis exoun tiw etairies den jeroun to antikeimeno para mono «emporika» – ara elaxista.

To allo einai oti h agora ergasias kai h anoxh pros tis parabiaseis ths ergatikhs nomo0esias (kai mhn jexname thn koinotath praktikh ths proslhpshs me deltio paroxhs anti gia IKA…), se sunduasmo me to oti o xwros einai mh-sundikalismenos, boh0aei kai enisxuei thn au0airesia.

7. talos - Ιανουαρίου 7, 2005

Na anaferw epishs to oti oi douleies einai «skotwmenes» se times gia pollous logous. Enas shmantikos einai oti o mesos idiwths pelaths den einai se 0esh na ektimhsei thn poiothta autou pou agorazei. Oi de dhmosioi foreis einai desmeumenoi me terastia sumbolaia me megales etaireies pou tous poulane fukia gia metajwtes kordelles (bl. intrasoft). Oi enlogw megales etaireies, xtupane ka0e diagwnismo anejarthtws posou (kai ton pairnoun sunh0ws logw connections) me apotelesma na mhn uparxei xwros gia tous mikrous…

8. Lida - Ιανουαρίου 7, 2005

To thema tis parabiasis ti ergatikis nomothesias einai mia para, para poli ponemeni istoria. Ginete sistimatika kai tharasitata. Mporo na po pampoles apisteutes pragmatika istories pou exo zisei i stis opies exo gine martiras ta teleutaia 3 xronia. To thrasos tous einai apithmeno pragmatika. Oxi mono to theoroune autonoito, zitane kai ta resta sas pliroforo. To periergo kai pio aparadekto apo ola einai oti oi merikoi neoteroi synadelfoi oxi mono to dexontai alla esthanontai kai enoxoi otan den «apodidoun oso tha eprepe» i akoma xirotera strefontai kai enantion auton pou antidroun!!!! Os ena bathmo oi ergodotes briskoun kai ta kanoun. Pisteuo to klidi briskete se auto pou eipes peri sindikalismou. Elaxistoi ston tomea (idietera stis mikres eteries) kseroun ta dikaiomata tous. Einai pragmatika apelpistiko merikes fores.

9. Lida - Ιανουαρίου 7, 2005

Ase, ta exo zisei apo proto xeri ola auta. Exo doulepsei se 2 kratika erga, to ena malista prosfata kai exoun dei arketa ta matia mou. Ektos apo auta pou periegrapses iparxei kai i apisteuti sxesi poliethnikon megaloeterion pou exoun ta connections kai pernoun tin doulia me tous upergolabous pou diathetoun tin texnognosia kai to prosopiko gia na tis ektelesoun .Ekei na dis dabatzilikia kai ekbiasmoi. Apo texnologia de, pikra megali. To idio ergo mporei sxedon pantote, na ginei 100 fores (KIRIOLEKTIKA) kalitera kai ftinotera. Alla fisika auto den simferei oute autous pou poulane oute autous pou agorazoun (enoo klinoun to simboleo oxi emas tou dinoume ta lefta).Kai afou oi mikroi den mporoun na paroun eukola doulies tou dimosiou giati epimenoun? Auto einai pou me trelenei. Giati den epikentronontai se kapio allo tomea. Yparxoun arketa pragmata pou mporoun na kanoun me ligi sosti ereuna agoras. Theloun omos tin megali mpaza, kai sto metaksi xanou eukeries tin mia piso apo ti alli

10. Oneiros - Ιανουαρίου 16, 2005

Pesta, Lida.. Lypamai gi’auto pou sou synevh, alla einai parhgoro oti yparxoun ki alloi pou vlepoun ta pragmata (kai tis aities tous) sth swsth tous diastash, ki einai akrivws opws ta les. Eidika se ellhnika erga, eidika se state/EU funded projects, alla oxi mono. Genika, exw apogohteutei kai den 3erw an a3izei to vasano n’ asxoleitai kaneis me thn plhroforikh s’auth th xwra (ki eidika ws developer).

11. Oneiros - Ιανουαρίου 17, 2005

8a mou peis, sto e3wteriko einai kalytera; (px. sthn Amerikh pou oi perikopes afhnoun dekades xiliades sto dromo, en ripei of8almw, kai periptwseis tou periptwseis typou EA). Den 3erw, alla o orismos tou Yourdon gia ta Deathmarch projects perilamvanei polla projects sta opoia exw doulepsei, kai den a3izan ton kopo kai to timhma sthn ygeia pou katevalla egw kai oi synadlefoi mou. (Ax, Haloscan, 8a egrafa perissotera..)

12. Giannis Beredimas - Ιανουαρίου 29, 2005

Mporw na sou pw pws oso krathse hsoun kai tyxerh … diabazw pws sthn periptwsh sas exoun ena sales guy gia to paper work kai skefthka pws sthn periptwsh mou einai fy siologiko na doulepseis ta weekends wste na kaneis th douleia tou «sales guy», i.e. an kai developer na grapseis protaseis, na ftiakseis proxeirous diagwnismous, subcontracts kai alla tetoia omorfa.

Meta apo 2-3 meetings kai merikes entones syzhthseis katafera kai ksefyga apo ayto to louki … gia na to fortwsoun se enan allo (gia thn akribeia mia allh) developer.

Gia bonuses, raises kai tetoia ti na peis …

8a goustara na grapsw thn analysh pou les, toulaxiston gia th dikh moy … «etairia» (pou opote th boleyei einai etairia kai opote … tO boleyei to paizei idryma) alla fobamai pws olo kai kapoio mati 8a thn parei me asxhma gia mena apotelesmata. Opote kalytera oxi.

Kalh tyxh sthn anazhthsh ergasias, an den exeis brei hdh kati.

Giannis

13. Lida - Ιανουαρίου 30, 2005

Oxi den exoun ena sales guy, exoun polous pou stadiaka aukasnontai, malista apektisan allous 2 «managers» afou efiga. I analysi gia tin opoia milao den afora mono mia i dio sigekrimenes eteries oute mono eteries pliroforikhs. Milao gia tn genikoteri nootropia pou diepei tis «nees» etairies opos I.T. diafimistikes, simboulon epixiriseon klp. Kai den prepei na perioristoume sto pos diikountai mono alla stin genikoteri nootropia ton idioktiton/executives/pelaton kai ergazomenon se autes. Prosopika egrapsa oti egrapsa giati den me endiefere pia an tha mino i tha figo. Isos tha eperepe na brethei ena tropos na milame dimosia horis na fobomaste tis epiptoseis.

14. Giannis Beredimas - Ιανουαρίου 30, 2005

Isos tha eprepe na bre8ei enas tropos. Then again to sxolio sou gia to Perama einai ON SPOT, kanenas den asxoleitai me emas. Ase pou exei boleytei kai tosos polys kosmakhs bre adelfe, apo hlektrologous kai politikous mexri 8eologous pou kanan 10 seminaria (san na ma8w egw h esy basikes arxes prwtwn boh8eiwn kai na to paizoume giatroi! XA!) kai ME TH NOMIMOPOIHSH tou kratous asxolountai epaggelmatika me thn plhroforikh, pou pas na ksebolepseis toso kosmo kai zhtas kai bonus kai sobarous mis8ous kai to paizeis programmatisths h mhxanikos bre aderfe … me treis kai ekshnta pou leei kai o 8eoxarhs, me mplok paroxhs yphresiwn pou pros8etei o talos kai ama goustareis bre aderfe.

15. Giannis Beredimas - Ιανουαρίου 30, 2005

Oops … pressed publish too soon.

Den kserw ti paizei genikws stis «nees» etairies h genikws stis IT. An krinw apo th dikia mou to problhma einai sth dioikhsh. Stenokefalh, MHDENIKH dia8esh gia kainotomia, MHDENIKH dia8esh gia ependyseis, oti arpaksoume bre aderfe, to ellhniko Dhmosio kai h EU na einai kala. Xamhles prosfores, palaba deadlines kai oi mayroi … eeee oi developers na ‘nai kala.

Na pros8esw pws h dikh mou etairia exei kai ola ta kaka tou Ellhnikou Dhmosiou. Alla ayto einai antikeimeno ksexwristou post se ksexwristo blog.

16. Peter Tomaszewski - Μαρτίου 24, 2006

Lidia,

I love your exciting way of writing and reporting on your life.
As an old polish guy, I feel that I understand you perfectly. The owners really are bastards, initially motivated , but then finally akin to devils.

But, don’t worry. Better times WILL come, and also because of people like you.

17. Lida - Μαρτίου 25, 2006

Thank you for your kind words. I must tell you that I did manage to find a good position in a Telco 4 moths after I got fired. And even if that hadnt’ worked out I could have tried anyware else in Europe. People with my qualifications are hard to find and are usually payed well. The problem is that i see no reason why the IT sector in greece has to be in such a terrible state with most of the companies involved operating like thieves. What I describe in the post is very common practice and has resulted to the migration of almost all greek a-class developers and engineers to Western Europe or the US. Personally I dont want to leave Greece but it is quite possible that I’will have to.

18. Lida’s Weblog » 115 - Αυγούστου 19, 2006

[…] Μπορεί να ακούγομαι κάπως πεζή μέσα στο γενικότερο κλίμα αλλά πριν περάσω στην συζήτηση περί windows vs. Linux έχω να δω πως γίνετε να μην πρέπει να κάνω επί μήνες 12-14ωρες και μερικές φορές 23ωρες βάρδιες χωρίς να πληρώνομε, να μην γίνομε συνένοχη στην κατασπατάληση του δημοσίου χρήματος και σε αρπαχτές του κώλου, να μην δέχομαι κυρώσεις όταν είμαι ειλικρινής απέναντι στους εργοδότες, στους πελάτες και στους συναδέλφους μου, να μην σπαταλιέται η δημιουργικότητα μου σε άχρηστες και επικίνδυνες εφαρμογές. Δεν είμαι εργατοπατέρας (εργατομητέρα??), δεν ανήκω στο ΚΚΕ (μ-λ η regular), δεν θέλω να σώσω τον κόσμο, να προστατέψω τα συμφέροντα μου σαν εργαζόμενη και σαν πολίτης αυτής της χώρας θέλω. Ανήκω σε ένα από τα πιο σύγχρονα και δημιουργικά επαγγέλματα και αντί να χαίρομαι γι αυτό αισθάνομαι απίστευτη απογοήτευση και θυμό. Αυτά τα βαρετά είναι που με απασχολούν και μάλλον απασχολούν και πολλούς άλλους εντός και εκτός της πληροφορικής. Υπάρχει κάποιος τρόπος να βγούμε από αυτό το καθημερινό λούκι, μετά βλέπουμε για τα άλλα. Προτείνω λοιπόν και “τόσο απλό”, θα ήταν απαραίτητο πιστεύω να δούμε πως δουλεύει (πρακτικά) η “νέα” οικονομία στην Ελλάδα γιατί αν δεν ξέρεις με τι έχεις να κάνεις πως θα το αντιμετωπίσεις;Προσωπικά δεν έχω καταφέρει να βρω έστω και μια χοντροκομμένη ανάλυση τις πλάκας, στο στιλ του μοιραίου post μου περί απόλυσης για το πως πραγματικά λειτουργούν οι Ελληνικές επιχειρήσεις της νέας οικονομίας. Έχει καθίσει κανείς να κάνει μια τέτοια ανάλυση; Θα χαρώ πραγματικά αν κάποιος γνωρίζει κάποια καλά παραδείγματα τέτοιων αναλύσεων για την Ελληνική πραγματικότητα. […]

19. Lida’s Weblog » 222 - Αυγούστου 19, 2006

[…] Το ιστορικό post περί απόλυσης έχει προστεθεί στα links αριστερά με τον διακριτικό τίτλο Απολύεσαι!!! […]

20. Dimitris - Σεπτεμβρίου 13, 2006

Σε έναν ανδροκρατούμενο (ίσως και ανανδροκρατούμενο) κλάδο, και μία συχνά μίζερη Ελληνική πραγματικότητα, το blog σου είναι πραγματικά πολύ ενδιαφέρον. I am impressed.

21. niovi - Μαρτίου 2, 2007

Lidaki, palaia xyna stafylia alla ti na kanw, I do admit I was touched. Gia sena einai mallon parel8on twra alla katalabainw kai niw8w ton 8ymo kai thn orgh sou.
Ergazomai se mia antistoixh etaireia sth Gallia. Ta pragmata exoun arxisei na ginontai poly agria. H perigrafh ths katastashs pou aneferes kati mou 8ymizei.
Shmerina (02/03/2007) 8ymata ths sygkekrimenhs politikhs:H biblio8hkh tou R&D pou douleuw, ta yparxonta ths, oi dyo ergazomenes se aythn (h mia kanonikotata sto dromo, alla ayta symbainoun sthn Gallia tou Sarkozi…) kai ola kyrile. Esteila mail se contacts sthn Etaireia (ypologizw kamia ekatosth atoma toulaxiston), gia na kinhtopoih8oume, ti diaolo, 8a feroun mpravous amafraxoume me ta swmata mas thn eisodo sth biblio8hkh, kai mesa se ena dywro, mantepse posa replies eixa:
3. Meion ena dhladh pou htan apo ton ierarxika anwtero pou mas esteile to sxetiko keimeno kai ypen8ymise hremia taxh kai asfaleia.
Skata sta moutra tous.
ps: den xerw giati bidw8hka toso me th biblio8hkh. Mallon giati thn grammenh oi perissoteroi. Alla kai me tous 123 pou phran dromo pali MOUGKA. Dhladh 8a ftasoume na trwme o enas ton allon???????

22. νίκος - Απριλίου 7, 2007

apla prepei na axisoyme na kanoyme tipota alla epagelmata ,
texnites klp poy exoyn analoga esoda kai ligotero agxos

23. chomsky - Απριλίου 24, 2007

Κάποτε που έκανα καριέρα ως courier συναντούσα συνεχώς πληροφορικάριους στους οποίους πήγαινα διάφορα εξαρτήματα,πχ κουβαλούσα server με το παπάκι,οι συνθήκες εργασίας που μου περιέγραφαν δεν ήταν ότι καλύτερο……πολλές ώρες εργασίας και λεφτά της πλάκας, απο τότε αποφάσισα ότι ήταν καλύτερα να ασχοληθώ ως ελεύθερος επαγγελματίας, έτσι έσκησα τα πτυχία μου(μηχανικός αυτοματισμού) και ξεκίνησα ως τεχνικός Η/Υ. Εκεί και εάν έχει μισθούς πείνας, απλά κάποια στιγμή ξεκινάς να δουλεύεις μόνος σου.

24. To paidi toy laoy - Φεβρουαρίου 22, 2008

Ama xalieste oloi toso giati den thn kanete?
3erete e3wteriko den einai mono h Agglia 🙂
Oso gia thn plhroforikh ellada, sorry paidia alla epeida ta eida kai apo mesa ligo ta pragmata, milame gia megalo kafeneio. Opws oi ellhnikes omades sto CL. Me tetoies omades tetoio prwta8lhma 8a exete, me ta 12wra, tis aplhrwtes yperwries, thn kataspatalhsh toy xronoy sas, ta DPY kai ta 8eovareta projects.
Apo thn allh re paidia, ti lefta na dwsoyn oi ellhnikes etaireies? Ti erga xtypane? Ti texnognwsia exoyn? (kai mhn petaxtei kanas e3ypnos kai pei emeis sthn XXXX kanoyme ayto kai gamame kai dernoyme, to vlepoyme olistika to zhthma) Ama paei o mesos ellhn developer e3wteriko, sorry guys alla me osa exw dei se megala projects (aka ta 3erei/xrhsimopoiei h mana sas kai h mana moy), 8a paei h karpazia synnefo.
To apeiro gelio peftei otan kapoioi mallon sympa8htikoi typoi th vlepoyn CxO, executives kai akoma kalytera software architects (h xara toy GoF).

Gia na thrhsoyme kai kapoies isorropies, arketoi tyxarpastoi einai «consultants» sto e3wteriko, opoy «consultant» = o genikwn ka8hkontwn (forietai poly kai sthn agglia 8a elega), opote pali ta xalia mas.

Pantws, synopsizontas h ellhnikh agora plhroforikhs einai gia klwtsies. Respect sth Lida poy exei estw h8ikes typseis gia thn kataspatalhsh xrhmatwn toy dhmosioy (idiaitera apo kati mpakalosymvoyleytikes pros L Kifissias meria)


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